M. Butler, “Leader of the Band”, Millennial Star, 9/27/2006
http://www.millennialstar.org/index.php/2006/09/27/leader_of_the_band

The most pertinent part is toward the last, where I summarize not only the parallel, but the spiritual inter-relationship between the lesser body of Jesus, and the greater body of Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the leader of the band, or in scriptural terms, the captain of our salvation. In order to be a captain, it was necessary that he take upon and be acquainted with our infirmities, and that happens via the lesser body. Old Testament prophecy is filled with this sort of correlation - where a prophet (who is a type of Christ) has the weaknesses of his people manifest in his body, or speaks as if he has.

This has been a known part of Hebrew mysticism for millennia, and it is in the apocryphal records of Christianity as well. However, you can get all of it out of the scriptures, quite well although one has to pay attention.

By the way, one does not need a mortal body for this process to work. Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. That means that he still bears, or is acquainted with our infirmities, a casual reading of Hebrews to the contrary.

And of course the Holy Ghost has a body, it is just a spiritual body, like the pre-mortal Lord, not a tangible resurrected body like the post mortal Jesus Christ.

The Jews therefore said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)
“I and the Father are one.” The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone you, but for blasphemy; and because you, being a man, make yourself out to be God.” (John 10:30-33)

And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in me does not believe in me, but in Him who sent me. And he who beholds me beholds the One who sent me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in me may not remain in darkness.” (John 12:44-46)

And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, “Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet.” (John 13:12-14)

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.

As to delegation:

“As created children of God. Jesus is truth, we on the other hand can only come to know this truth and through Him live it, be brought into it. Share in His Truth, share His Love, His life, even share in pro-creation. Jesus is the life, we on the other hand can only come to know this life and be given life through it, in Him and live with this truth, this life for eternity.”

If you had known me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’?” (John 14:6-9)

As to Moses:

Jesus therefore said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” They said therefore to Him, “Lord, evermore give us this bread.” Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst.” (John 6:32-35)
Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world; he who follows me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.” The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You are bearing witness of yourself; your witness is not true.” Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true; for I know where I came from, and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from, or where I am going.” (John 8:12-14)

Jesus therefore said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.” (John 10:7-11)

Martha therefore said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever you ask of God, God will give you.” Jesus said to her, “Your brother shall rise again.” Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?” She said to Him, “Yes, Lord; I have believed that you are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world.” (John 11:21-27)

Is Jesus God? Why did he come? Was he searching for His own Glory? Rewards in Heaven?

But Jesus called them to Himself, and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It is not so among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20:25-28)
For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, “The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later.” But they did not understand this statement, and they were afraid to ask Him. (Mark 9:31-32)

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:16-18)

“All that the Father gives me shall come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of Him who sent me, that of all that He has given me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I myself will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:37-40)

4. Seth R. Says:
August 31st, 2006 at 10:09 am e

No John.

Semantics here. We speak of ultimate exhaltation, not mere “divinity.”

Christ could thus be “divine” when guiding Moses in the desert, yet not fully “exhalted” in the Mormon sense of the word.

Furthermore, you have to keep in mind that both Christ and the Holy Ghost partake in the power and glory of God the Father. Through the power of the Father, all things can be accomplished, and that power may be delegated.

The Mormon concept of “Divine Investiture of Authority” also seems relevant here. But I’m not well-versed on its nuances.

I do know that I’ve heard all sorts of speculation. Some have said that the Holy Ghost will ultimately receive a body. Others have said that Christ was once a “Holy Ghost”… or that a being must first play the role of “Savior” before attaining “Godhood.” I’ve heard some wonder what the gender of the Holy Ghost is, or if it’s even relevant.

None of that is doctrinal, as far as I know. I believe it to be pure speculation. We have not been informed on these matters, so it is best not to take such imaginings too seriously.

5. John in MN Says:
August 31st, 2006 at 4:17 pm e

Christ could thus be “divine” when guiding Moses in the desert, yet not fully “exhalted” in the Mormon sense of the word.

Furthermore, you have to keep in mind that both Christ and the Holy Ghost partake in the power and glory of God the Father. Through the power of the Father, all things can be accomplished, and that power may be delegated.

The Mormon concept of “Divine Investiture of Authority” also seems relevant here. But I’m not well-versed on its nuances.

Thank you, Seth. That clears things up quite a bit.

On the speculation angle, the one about the Holy Ghost, that’s pretty wild stuff when one is used to the explanation of Jesus being the first-born spirit child of the Father. Or is that also speculation? This whole idea of what is speculation and what is doctrine may a great topic for later. As for my question, thanks for pointing out that important difference.

6. Seth R. Says:
September 1st, 2006 at 9:09 am e

Well, all religions have their ”interesting” members don’t they?