M&C Question: Rosary gifts
Posted by guest on November 5th, 2006
[ed. note: This question came into M&C in the middle of October and I'm moving it here. The questioner's, AKA Wacky Hermit, text is in italics and John in MN's answer is interspersed in regular font.]
Hi, I’m a Mormon and I have some questions for Catholics about rosaries. By way of background I was baptized Catholic but my parents joined the LDS church when I was just a few years old, so I was essentially raised Mormon but I have many Catholic relatives.
My grandfather (Catholic) passed away and a memorial mass is to be held for him. Knowing how dearly my grandmother (also Catholic) loves her religion, I made for her a special rosary out of semiprecious stone beads and with a center piece of her and my grandfather’s favorite saint, and I want her to have it in time for my grandfather’s mass. Is this an appropriate gift? Also, can I give rosaries I made to my other Catholic relatives who also hold their religion dear?
You are one cool grandson. A rosary is an appropriate gift for any serious occasion, including Valentine’s Day. But your gift in this circumstance is uniquely appropriate. The fact that you make them yourself is special. The fact that you would do it for them even though you aren’t Catholic is even more special.
My last question about rosaries relates to my (Mormon) brother, who is a member of a medieval re-enactment society. He has taken as his character a person who would certainly have been Catholic and would have been likely to carry a medieval-style rosary. I have researched the history of rosaries and I wanted to make him a historically correct set of rosary beads to go with his medieval garb, but my mom (former Catholic, now Mormon) absolutely objected, saying it would be sacrilegious for him to carry even an unblessed historical reproduction rosary because he is not Catholic. I countered that we see on TV people who are not Catholic playing the roles of priests and nuns and carrying rosary beads, and we ourselves carried rosary beads when we marched in the Portuguese Festa parade as sign bearers for the rosary-draped St. Jude float, but she was emphatic that my brother carrying a medieval rosary was sacrilegious. Am I right, or is my mom right?
You are fine to give anyone an unblessed rosary. If it is to be used as a prop and not for prayer, I would guess that an unblessed rosary would be even more appropriate. It sounds fine to me. The only thing I would take into consideration is whether or not you making rosaries in contrary to your own faith. Catholics encourage non-Catholics to pray the rosary, but due to the fact that our theological differences are often encountered with the rosary prayers, very few non-Catholics do this. So you are not offending Catholics with this. But you mother might feel that your rosary hobby conflicts with your current faith. You are enabling and encouraging Catholic-style prayer with this. And while I see no objection to what you are doing, she might see what you are doing as contrary to the missionary purpose of the LDS Church. It would be similar to me offering someone a Book of Mormon. But my wife and I see no problem with offering Mormons Mormon-style gifts. In recent years, we’ve purchased a temple bag for a sister-in-law, and giving out gifts from Deseret Book. We don’t see a problem with it, but some Catholics might. It’s a very personal issue, and you need to honor your mother’s decision in this particular matter. But you can tell her that I said it’s fine (for whatever that is worth).
December 3rd, 2006 at 10:03 pm
Thanks for your response. I did read it back in October and I gave my grandmother the rosary in time for my grandfather’s memorial mass. My grandmother loved it and was pleased to have such a nice rosary. My mom actually took the rosary to my grandma, since she was going out to California for the mass. My mom didn’t have a problem with me making rosaries or giving them to relatives who were already Catholic. We also have Jewish relatives and we’ve given them Judaica in the past for gifts, and there’s never been a single objection. In fact they’ve given *us* Judaica (we all have mezuzahs that my LDS mom got from a visit with an Israeli ambassador and gave to all her LDS kids).
For the record, I don’t have a problem encouraging Catholic-style prayer in Catholics. As someone who was brought up surrounded by Catholic traditions and learning about the religion even if I didn’t practice it, I know that the rosary isn’t solely about “vain repetitions” as some LDS think, but is more like a meditation on divine topics when properly done. When I attend religious events on the Catholic side, I will pray the rosary, I just omit the parts of the Hail Marys that ask Mary to pray for us because that’s not what I believe. (But I’m not so anal about it that I won’t sing or listen to “Ave Maria”.) Now if somebody asked me “How should prayer be done?” I wouldn’t say “well you could pray the rosary, or you could do it the LDS way…”, but for people who’ve already made up their minds, I don’t think the rosary is a bad thing at all. The Lord loves us all and listens to all our prayers, whether we do them on our knees, while holding on to beads, write them on prayer flags or stick them between cracks in stones.
My grandparents and ancestors were great and godly people who trusted the Lord. My mother-in-law is a paragon of faith. That they are and were Catholic doesn’t change that. My Catholic relatives are people who strive toward the same righteous goals as I do, just in a different way, according to their understanding. I honor them.
And now I’m off to make a rosary for my mother-in-law…
December 4th, 2006 at 9:29 pm
I just omit the parts of the Hail Marys that ask Mary to pray for us because that’s not what I believe.
Why wouldn’t you want Mary to pray for you? I take all the prayers I can get.
February 17th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
i have many catholics in my family (my husband being one), i am LDS. i truely know that Jesus Christ is my brother, and i am grateful to know i have a Heavenly Father, however, i believe Mary was a very important woman……..she gave birth to our Savior…….however, there it ends, i dont think she will pray for us…….see the thing is , it is all about ……Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father…….no one else really………our individual relationship with them, and we are blessed to have the Holy Ghost who testifys to us of the truth of all things……..The God Head……….
i was with a catholic the other day and the “Sacred Heart” was mentioned, i had no idea what it was……..well it turns out it is the trinity……..i didnt explain anything, because i wanted no ill feeling to occour…….you see the comment had been made to the effect……..” not protestant, just not catholics. there is only one religion Catholic”…..this is why we have wars….and she is a wonderful elderly lady………..
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:36 pm
The Holy Trinity which consists of God our father, Jesus the son of God and The Holy Spirit are all three part of the Mormon faith, correct? So please explain to me what you meant by “i didn’t explain anything, because i wanted no ill feeling to occur”. I am truly interested in the similarities of our religions. I find that the family values of the LDS people that I am proud to call my friends are completly in line with the family teachings I was brought up to live by. I could discuss this with any one of them, however we do not speak about religion very often.
March 28th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
IrishCatholic wrote:
March 28th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Sorry, I’m new to the forum and didn’t get my blockquote to work the way I intended. Everything that appeared in the above blockquote was my own words, not IrishCatholic’s. I apologize for any confusion.
March 10th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Irish Catholic wrote: “(I think) Catholics believe that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are extensions of God, that enable Him to conveniently or efficiently execute His will in different ways. They share one intelligence and one personality. God and the Holy Ghost exist as spirits only (although their precise distinction is unclear to me). Jesus may exist as spirit only (today).
Please correct me if I’ve misrepresented the Catholic perspective. I am curious about it and have many questions to ask, but will save them until someone can confirm or correct my statements so far.”
Personally I believe we may have a better description if we use the old stndard Balimore cathechism:
LESSON THIRD: ON THE UNITY AND TRINITY OF GOD
Dis-tinct’, separate, different.
Di-vine’ Na’ture, that which is one in God.
E’qual, another just as great and perfect as Himself –
In’fi-nite, the most perfect possible.
Su-preme’, above all.
Trin’i-ty, three in one.
U’ni-ty, being only one.
21. Q. Is there but one God?
A. Yes; there is but one God.
22. Q. Why can there be but one God?
A. There can be but one God, because God, being supreme and infinite, cannot have an equal.
23. Q. How many Persons are there in God?
A. In God there are three Divine Persons, really distinct, and equal in all things-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
24. Q. Is the Father God?
A. The Father is God and the first Person of the Blessed Trinity.
25. Q. Is the Son God?
A. The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.
26. Q. Is the Holy Ghost God?
A. The Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Blessed Trinity.
27. Q. What is the Blessed Trinity?
A. The Blessed Trinity is one God in three Divine Persons.
29. Q. Are the three Divine Persons one and the same God?
A. The three Divine Persons are one and the same God, having one and the same Divine nature.
I paste this here just in the interests of clarity and simplicity. In this we do not see Christ and the Holy Spirit as extension of God but as three distinct persons in onw God. Utimately the Triune God or Trinity is a mystery. Elucidation of this mystery can only proceed so far under human reason. Great care should be exercised in going beyond the catechism as even theolgoians in the past such as Abelard have gotten themselves into hot water over trying to push back the mystery beyond what is possible in human reason.
When Moses is confronted by the burning bush, he quite reasonabley ask God for His Name that he might tell the hebrews who has sent him. The Lord replie, “Tell them that I am who am has sent you.” By this accidental information, Thomas Aquinas was able to finally join the first principle of Metaphysics with the God of Revelation, the Christian God is Existence itself, an infinite ocean of existence, his essence is to BE. Only such a God can be a creator, can bring into existence that which is NOT.
God is totally other and to say he is spirit is the best we can do but not sufficient to express Him.
in Mormonism this is not God as they conceive it. The Father God was once a man like us who achieved His perfection and now rules over our planet and who breeds spirit children with his now spiritual wives and we are those spirit children now born in the flesh. Christ is the son, born in the same way by intercourse with Mary. I’m not completely familiar with mormon teaching regarding the Spirt, the Revelator and his engendering. But Mary is not Ever-Virgin,nor is she the God Bearer, the Theotokos of the Orthodox nor was she immaculately conceived nor assumed into heaven. Mormons would not thinks of praying to Mary to intercede with Christ her Son for their benefit or help as would Catholics. And actually, many first presidents of the LDS play down having a relatonship with Jesus Christ that is so important in Catholic prayer life and in Catholic mystical theology.
Hope this helps and maybe one of our Mormon friwnds can correct me on my take on their beliefs to clarify waht they really believe.
Tom Z